Author Topic: 9/11 - Beliefs should conform to our best scientific understanding of the world  (Read 2168 times)

Infernal Diatribe

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"Beliefs should conform to our best scientific understanding of the world. We should take care never to distort scientific facts to fit our beliefs."

Watch the first 25 minutes (minimum).

http://politicalvelcraft.org/2011/06/16/fbi-twin-towers-brought-down-on-911-by-controlled-demolition-is-backed-by-thorough-research-and-analysis-theory-2-hour-video/

You'll see the problem here:

"9/11 conspiracy theories have become social phenomena, despite lack of support from expert scientists, engineers, and historians"

The current explanation is not just fictional but it's science fiction.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/September_11_attacks

Note the "talk" section:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:September_11_attacks

http://www.ae911truth.org/

Names of 2000+ experts (including me) appear on this petition.  We are "experts".

https://bookofbadarguments.com/

If you read the Satanic Bible page 27 (unmarked) "The Infernal Diatribe"

Diatribe:

di·a·tribe ˈdīəˌtrīb, noun

A forceful and bitter verbal attack against someone or something.

"a diatribe against the Roman Catholic Church"

There is a diatribe against Satanism on Wikipedia.  Wikipedia is the modern encyclopedia; in print is dead.  We cannot let "those people" write the encyclopedia based on their and their only points of view. 

The "Wikiproject: Satanism" project has been blanked out.  It's supposed to be a workspace for the group:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Satanism

Wikipedia Admins are using procedural "guidelines" to block Satanic writers:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Wikipedia_sockpuppets_of_Barfbag666

Some of those people know each other, some do not.  Some of those names were just reserved should the pen names be wanted in the future (no posts made with them).  They're gagging Satanism based on recent coordinated interest.  Note the names of those admins.

Help.
"Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds."

protocall

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Will you please explain this to me like I'm five?

Brego

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Will you please explain this to me like I'm five?

Me too.

lifethorne

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Maybe just letting this die and go unnoticed would be better, but dude? 9/11 was NOT an inside job. I can't tell if that's what you're claiming or not, and I agree we should make sure Wikipedia is being fair to Satanism. The idea that the Twin Towers were brought down by anything but terrorists necessitates a HUMUNGOUS conspiracy that would cost trillions of dollars to pay for every witness, engineer, passenger on the planes, and random people like myself who oppose baseless conspiracy theories. It means you'd have to believe most people would keep quiet about or help kill 3000 people for enough money. You'd have to believe in explosive technologies that don't exist, or that somehow crews were able to work for years installing the charges without ANYONE noticing, as that would have been the largest controlled demolitions project in history. If I misunderstand and you were just pointing out how Belial-loved asinine it is that people believe this, and this little tirade was misguided, I apologize and ask for clarification either way.
Lead by example and expose hypocrisy

Alchemist16AD

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We really do need to talk about something to keep this form alive. I will drop a few links. And my take on this. Take it for what its worth.

http://www1.ae911truth.org/en/affiliate-marketing-program/874-why-i-am-convinced-911-was-an-inside-job.html

http://www.withthecommand.com/2002-Jan/NY-empireplane.html

http://prorev.com/wtc.htm

I really don't think jets would of taken them down if it was made up to spec.  Was it a inside job I guess that depends on what one means by inside job?
Forged from wisdom, crafted from knowledge, a product of intelligence, raised by ignorance and stupidly. -Myself .

lifethorne

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http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/9/11_conspiracy_theories

Dude, it was a terrorist attack that killed about 3,000 people and sickened pretty much every rescue worker. It was a horrific tragedy and you're kind of disrespecting the memories and actions of those who died and those who worked to try saving lives. 10,000 engineers all across the world agree, the planes could and indeed did bring down the towers. Like, instead of showing this propaganda just tell me your questions about the event and I'll answer them. If there is one thing I can't stand more than religious tyranny it is baseless conspiracy theories. What about Big Oil's conspiracy to keep countries from doing anything about global warming? What about the NRA and gun manufacturer's conspiracy to continue letting tens of thousands of Americans die from gun violence? What's your end game in getting people to believe 9/11 was anything but a terrorist attack? Like what's the goal?
Lead by example and expose hypocrisy

Alchemist16AD

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“The building was designed to have a fully loaded 707 crash into it. That was the largest plane at the time. I believe that the building probably could sustain multiple impacts of jetliners because this structure is like the mosquito netting on your screen door—this intense grid—and the jet plane is just a pencil puncturing that screen netting. It really does nothing to the screen netting.”

Demartini appeared to be so confident that the towers would not collapse that he stayed behind, after the airplane impacts, to help save at least 50 people. As a result of his actions, he lost his life on 9/11.

Like the firefighters who perished in the WTC buildings, Demartini may very well have risked his life to save others, but the evidence suggests that he did not think he was endangering himself by simply going back into the building.

In addition, investigators from NIST who examined the destruction of the WTC skyscrapers told The New York Times in 2007 that newly disclosed documents from the 1960s show that the new York Port Authority, the original owners of Twin Towers, also considered aircraft moving at 600 mph,slightly faster and therefore more destructive than the ones that did hit the towers.

The information detailed in 9/11: Explosive Evidence – Experts Speak Out demonstrates clearly that pre-planted explosives – not jet plane impacts and fires – destroyed the Twin Towers. The WTC designers seemed to be correct in their analysis in the 1960s, and the evidence that these buildings were brought down by controlled demolition corroborates their conclusions.
http://www1.ae911truth.org/news-section/41-articles/655-faq-9-were-the-twin-towers-designed-to-survive-the-impact-of-the-airplanes.html

Most of all I want to know why my friends were killed and why the government would cover it up..

Forged from wisdom, crafted from knowledge, a product of intelligence, raised by ignorance and stupidly. -Myself .

Benjamin T. Awesome

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When engineers can't agree, you call in a physicist. Hail science! The beautiful thing about this is you can do the calculations yourself. I submit that if you actually sit down and do the calculations, rather than defer to authorities or get distracted by fallacious analogies to mosquitoes and screen doors, you will arrive at the right answer.

Brutus

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“The building was designed to have a fully loaded 707 crash into it.”

The Titanic was designed to be fully loaded and crash into an iceberg.

😐...

Aleister-Crowley

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When engineers can't agree, you call in a physicist. Hail science! The beautiful thing about this is you can do the calculations yourself. I submit that if you actually sit down and do the calculations, rather than defer to authorities or get distracted by fallacious analogies to mosquitoes and screen doors, you will arrive at the right answer.

I guess Alchemist hasn't let people know, his education background. Not my place to spill the beans. I will however, say a) He's one of the smartest people I have ever known. And b) If he says it looks like some kind of cover up I trust his judgement.

And hey no plane hit building 7 and we have reporters saying it fell and you can see it in the back ground still. Like wtf?
I rather sip from the well of wisdom, then drown in the sea of stupidy.

Alchemist16AD

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When engineers can't agree, you call in a physicist. Hail science! The beautiful thing about this is you can do the calculations yourself. I submit that if you actually sit down and do the calculations, rather than defer to authorities or get distracted by fallacious analogies to mosquitoes and screen doors, you will arrive at the right answer.

I guess Alchemist hasn't let people know, his education background. Not my place to spill the beans. I will however, say a) He's one of the smartest people I have ever known. And b) If he says it looks like some kind of cover up I trust his judgement.

And hey no plane hit building 7 and we have reporters saying it fell and you can see it in the back ground still. Like wtf?

Nope I am still an enigma wrapped in shadow. Dr Crowley ;-)
Forged from wisdom, crafted from knowledge, a product of intelligence, raised by ignorance and stupidly. -Myself .

Benjamin T. Awesome

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I guess Alchemist hasn't let people know, his education background. Not my place to spill the beans. I will however, say a) He's one of the smartest people I have ever known. And b) If he says it looks like some kind of cover up I trust his judgement.

No, he let that slip in another thread. But what you're doing is making an appeal to authority, which is a logical fallacy. You're making a double appeal to authority by vouching for him as being "one of the smartest people you have ever known," as though your opinion is also authoritative. Is it? Why should I believe you?

What I know is that the reference cited by your friend in this thread that analogizes a plane crashing into the tower to a mosquito hitting a screen door is laughable for so many reasons, not the least of which is that it ignores the basic laws of classical mechanics, the physics you learn in your first year as a physics student in college. Do you guys understand what torque is and why it is important in the collapse of the towers?

What's next? It was an alien conspiracy to put Earth in orbit around the Sun, because there's no way that could have happened through physical processes?

Quote
And hey no plane hit building 7 and we have reporters saying it fell and you can see it in the back ground still. Like wtf?

I guess you didn't read the part about how much potential energy was converted into kinetic energy during the collapse of the towers. Some of the energy from the north tower was transferred to Tower 7 from debris colliding into it, damaging its structural integrity and causing fires. I don't know why this has to be a mystery or a conspiracy that it came down when it is explained by an elementary understanding of physics.

Again, basic physics, and anyone claiming an authoritative knowledge of physics should know this, or at the very least be able to disprove the work of other physicists by showing where they are wrong. All you have done is say "this guy I know is smart, so there."
« Last Edit: August 13, 2016, 11:27:05 AM by Benjamin T. Awesome »

Alchemist16AD

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We really do need to talk about something to keep this form alive. I will drop a few links. And my take on this. Take it for what its worth.

http://www1.ae911truth.org/en/affiliate-marketing-program/874-why-i-am-convinced-911-was-an-inside-job.html

http://www.withthecommand.com/2002-Jan/NY-empireplane.html

http://prorev.com/wtc.htm

I really don't think jets would of taken them down if it was made up to spec.  Was it a inside job I guess that depends on what one means by inside job?

Above was my original post. I don't think you read it. Again I say if the towers was made to the spec they was suppose to have been made to. Then the plane wouldn't of taken it down. And tower 7 was said to have been taken down by deasil takes exploding underneath. Strange how it took 7 hours for it to do so.
Here is some light reading: http://www.science-writing.org/id29.html
Forged from wisdom, crafted from knowledge, a product of intelligence, raised by ignorance and stupidly. -Myself .

Benjamin T. Awesome

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Regarding your puzzlement over the time it took for Tower 7 to collapse, how long do you think it should have taken? Do you have some model in mind whereby some fraction of the potential energy from the collapse of the Twin Towers is converted into kinetic energy that damages the structural integrity of Tower 7 and starts fires inside it demonstrates that it should take more or less than seven hours?

If you consider that the collapse of the Twin Towers released potential energy equivalent to about 5% the force of the Hiroshima atomic bomb, it's not really surprising that a neighboring building would be damaged sufficiently to knock it down. Unlike an atomic bomb, however, this force was not all released in a fraction of a second, which would certainly have bowled over neighboring buildings in dramatic fashion. It was released far more slowly, and transferred in collisions with debris and ejecta, as well as shaking from the ground impact. This would damage a building, priming it to collapse and starting fires, but may or may not immediately knock it down (depending on where the collisions occurred, their angle of impact, the mass of the debris that hit neighboring buildings, etc.).

Quote
Here is some light reading: http://www.science-writing.org/id29.html

This is at least a rational argument. The guy says the WTC had inadequate fireproofing. That's a viable theory, and may enter into the equation. He also ignores torque altogether, however, just saying "But what may also shock you is that architect Minoru Yamasaki designed the World Trade Center towers to withstand a collision with a Boeing 707 airplane (Federal Emergency Management Agency 2002). The Boeing 707 is similar to the Boeing 767s that actually crashed into the towers, the main differences being that the 767 is slightly heavier and slower. " They did withstand the impact; they didn't go down immediately upon absorbing the planes' linear momentum. They were simply too structurally degraded by the torquing that occurred to remain standing. Perhaps especially so with fires causing further damage.

It is interesting that the article mentions fire temperatures of "up to 1500 degrees." Depending on the exact steel used in the construction of the towers, and depending on what "up to 1500 degrees" really means in practical terms, that is getting high enough to pose a risk of melting the steel core, in which case that is certainly going to result in collapse. Liquified steel beams don't really get the job done when it comes to holding up buildings.

Alchemist16AD

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Regarding your puzzlement over the time it took for Tower 7 to collapse, how long do you think it should have taken? Do you have some model in mind whereby some fraction of the potential energy from the collapse of the Twin Towers is converted into kinetic energy that damages the structural integrity of Tower 7 and starts fires inside it demonstrates that it should take more or less than seven hours?

If you consider that the collapse of the Twin Towers released potential energy equivalent to about 5% the force of the Hiroshima atomic bomb, it's not really surprising that a neighboring building would be damaged sufficiently to knock it down. Unlike an atomic bomb, however, this force was not all released in a fraction of a second, which would certainly have bowled over neighboring buildings in dramatic fashion. It was released far more slowly, and transferred in collisions with debris and ejecta, as well as shaking from the ground impact. This would damage a building, priming it to collapse and starting fires, but may or may not immediately knock it down (depending on where the collisions occurred, their angle of impact, the mass of the debris that hit neighboring buildings, etc.).

Quote
Here is some light reading: http://www.science-writing.org/id29.html

This is at least a rational argument. The guy says the WTC had inadequate fireproofing. That's a viable theory, and may enter into the equation. He also ignores torque altogether, however, just saying "But what may also shock you is that architect Minoru Yamasaki designed the World Trade Center towers to withstand a collision with a Boeing 707 airplane (Federal Emergency Management Agency 2002). The Boeing 707 is similar to the Boeing 767s that actually crashed into the towers, the main differences being that the 767 is slightly heavier and slower. " They did withstand the impact; they didn't go down immediately upon absorbing the planes' linear momentum. They were simply too structurally degraded by the torquing that occurred to remain standing. Perhaps especially so with fires causing further damage.

It is interesting that the article mentions fire temperatures of "up to 1500 degrees." Depending on the exact steel used in the construction of the towers, and depending on what "up to 1500 degrees" really means in practical terms, that is getting high enough to pose a risk of melting the steel core, in which case that is certainly going to result in collapse. Liquified steel beams don't really get the job done when it comes to holding up buildings.

Awesome thanks for playing. Remember the other part of my post: "We really do need to talk about something to keep this form alive. I will drop a few links. And my take on this. Take it for what its worth."
Forged from wisdom, crafted from knowledge, a product of intelligence, raised by ignorance and stupidly. -Myself .