Author Topic: The Satanic Temple vs. The Church of Satan  (Read 9866 times)

squeeze_my_lemon

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The Satanic Temple vs. The Church of Satan
« on: November 23, 2015, 06:58:25 AM »
I really came here to ask a few questions. I am curious about the differences between The Satanic Temple and The Church of Satan.  Back in college, I did an informative speech about The Church of Satan, and explained how their 9 Satanic Statements, 11 Satanic Rules, and 9 Satanic Sins really aren't as offensive or evil as someone might just assume.  I've been following the work of The Satanic Temple (Children's coloring book, the Baphomet Statue in Detroit, etc).  I noticed in the story of the statue that there were 7 tenets on the statue, and thought to myself, I thought the Church of Satan had 9 tenets (statements). So, I checked out their website again, and compared it to this one, and noticed that they were quite different from each other.  I may just be naive about possibly different sects or "denominations" of Satanism. So, my questions are, what is the difference between the two churches?  Are there more than just these two that have slightly different views on what Satanism is?  I am correct to assume that, just like a lot of religions, that there are different "denominations" like there are in Christianity?

Southern Satanist

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Re: The Satanic Temple vs. The Church of Satan
« Reply #1 on: November 23, 2015, 09:13:39 AM »
The most significant split between The Satanic Temple and the Church of Satan is political. The Church of Satan is heavily tied up in Social Darwinism and a "might makes right" philosophy (perhaps an outgrowth of Anton LaVey's hatred of the hippie movement). The Satanic Temple rejects that philosophy and embraces a more humanistic and compassionate one.

"Denominations" is a tricky word to apply to Satanism because it implies a larger underlying structure or identity that I'm not sure is really there. No doubt the CoS look down on TST as "pesudo-Satanists" because we reject the Social Darwinist side of "orthodox" Satanism (as though CoS, or anyone, could ever lay claim to a "Satanic orthodoxy," a contradiction in terms if I ever heard one).
"I believe that when I die I shall rot, and nothing of my ego will survive."
- Bertrand Russell

noredeemerliveth

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Re: The Satanic Temple vs. The Church of Satan
« Reply #2 on: November 23, 2015, 03:06:09 PM »
The Church of Satan is heavily tied up in Social Darwinism and a "might makes right" philosophy (perhaps an outgrowth of Anton LaVey's hatred of the hippie movement).

It's very much a product of its time and place, as all revelatory religions are.

squeeze_my_lemon

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Re: The Satanic Temple vs. The Church of Satan
« Reply #3 on: November 23, 2015, 03:40:59 PM »
Excellent. Thanks for the clarification on that.  I definitely saw a more violent dialogue from CoS, I just wanted to understand some of the differences between the two, and you guys have definitely helped me with that.

Jjohns28

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Re: The Satanic Temple vs. The Church of Satan
« Reply #4 on: November 27, 2015, 12:35:49 AM »
There are a few Satanic groups out there.  First Satanic Church, I believe started by Karla LaVey, which claims to be the "true" satanic remnant, and I found a website for something called the Satanic Chapel or Chapel of Satan.  I'm sure there are others out there.  It's similar in Wicca:  Gardnerians and Alexandrians, and oodles of different traditions that came later, and they'll be arguing forever about who is truly Wiccan. 

I'm sure there are many self-styled Satanists that belong to no group and do their thing.  Satanismis ultimately about the individual, so the idea of a "black pope" seems a bit contradictory.  WE are our own pope, our own god. 

I don't know how all CoS members interpret the "strong v. weak" thing.  If they're implying that the countless people that for various reasons simply are unable to better or empower themselves are deserving of our scorn, that's something I never can agree to.  And there's a good deal of emphasis on becoming successful...  I assume but cannot say for certain they mean materially.

What exactly does LaVey mean by "strong" anyway?  You don't have to be a celebrity or rich.  You can be a single mother working three jobs to feed your kids, and I call that strong.  The very act of calling out orthodox religion on its crap takes strength.  I'd like to think I'm strong for holding down a job and coming out as gay to a family that can at times be judgmental and small-minded, and holding my ground.  A 5 year old battling cancer is strong, perhaps stronger than any Satanic priest you'll meet; I happen to know such a 5yo.

Ms Nightshade

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Re: The Satanic Temple vs. The Church of Satan
« Reply #5 on: November 27, 2015, 05:00:34 AM »

What exactly does LaVey mean by "strong" anyway?  You don't have to be a celebrity or rich.  You can be a single mother working three jobs to feed your kids, and I call that strong.  The very act of calling out orthodox religion on its crap takes strength.  I'd like to think I'm strong for holding down a job and coming out as gay to a family that can at times be judgmental and small-minded, and holding my ground.  A 5 year old battling cancer is strong, perhaps stronger than any Satanic priest you'll meet; I happen to know such a 5yo.

I just wanted to applaud this :)

Kieran Hyde

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Re: The Satanic Temple vs. The Church of Satan
« Reply #6 on: December 09, 2015, 02:36:34 PM »
The most significant split between The Satanic Temple and the Church of Satan is political. The Church of Satan is heavily tied up in Social Darwinism and a "might makes right" philosophy (perhaps an outgrowth of Anton LaVey's hatred of the hippie movement). The Satanic Temple rejects that philosophy and embraces a more humanistic and compassionate one.
Yeah, plus the Church of Satan is just really snooty. From what I gathered, they have a very non-inclusive mentality. I like the tenets of compassion and empathy. Altruism is pretty important to me personally, so I feel like the Satanic Temple is more appropriate for me overall. I could never get over how the Church of Satan is so obsessed with authority, that just bothered me.

Psy-Q

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Re: The Satanic Temple vs. The Church of Satan
« Reply #7 on: December 10, 2015, 11:23:20 AM »
If anyone wants to know details I will just name this particular type of Satanism "Temple Satanism" and point to the tenets if they want to know more about why I think this is distinct from LaVeyan.

I don't think it's useful to fight about who is "true", that's what many religions would use to fight each other and within their own members, as we see with Shia and Sunni groups in the Middle East or Protestants and Catholics in Ireland. What the STS formulates could be labeled something else. Call it "Spartacism", that is also a reference to a rebel, like Lucifer. It just happens to be Satanism here, and for good reason. That happens to give so much more leverage to expose unequal treatment of religions by associating with something that many people have negative prejudice against.

Acoustic_rebellion

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Re: The Satanic Temple vs. The Church of Satan
« Reply #8 on: December 14, 2015, 05:23:47 PM »
This has been very enlightening. I got side tracked and ended up on a CoS site and was starting to doubt that Satanism has all that much to do with me. You guys are helping to reaffirm that TST really does fit with my beliefs and life. Thanks guys.
"It is not death that a man should fear, but he should fear never beginning to live." -- Marcus Aurelius

Achilles

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Re: The Satanic Temple vs. The Church of Satan
« Reply #9 on: December 14, 2015, 07:21:03 PM »
Here's my best interpretation of the difference...in COS you are something less...in TST we are one.

Alchemist16AD

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Re: The Satanic Temple vs. The Church of Satan
« Reply #10 on: December 15, 2015, 07:32:35 PM »
 I found this and can't say I agree to much with it: https://www.reddit.com/r/satanism/comments/3fbqmy/difference_between_the_cos_and_tst/

I do know that in the 70's the COS was the only thing at the time I found to agree with. Yet felt I was picking and choosing kind of like the Christians do with the bible.  I did go on to meet Anton and  even had dinner with him a few times. We became good friends. However now being much older I look back at him and feel he did  everything for money and for show. But that's my 2 cents...

http://www.vice.com/read/unmasking-lucien-greaves-aka-doug-mesner-leader-of-the-satanic-temple  I think the best place to read and or come to you own understanding of both. Is to read both websites.  I still think all of Anton's books are worth reading.  Yet I live my life as an atheist who is a Satanist.

Forged from wisdom, crafted from knowledge, a product of intelligence, raised by ignorance and stupidly. -Myself .

Kieran Hyde

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Re: The Satanic Temple vs. The Church of Satan
« Reply #11 on: December 16, 2015, 03:45:00 AM »
I found this and can't say I agree to much with it: https://www.reddit.com/r/satanism/comments/3fbqmy/difference_between_the_cos_and_tst/

I do know that in the 70's the COS was the only thing at the time I found to agree with. Yet felt I was picking and choosing kind of like the Christians do with the bible.  I did go on to meet Anton and  even had dinner with him a few times. We became good friends. However now being much older I look back at him and feel he did  everything for money and for show. But that's my 2 cents...

http://www.vice.com/read/unmasking-lucien-greaves-aka-doug-mesner-leader-of-the-satanic-temple  I think the best place to read and or come to you own understanding of both. Is to read both websites.  I still think all of Anton's books are worth reading.  Yet I live my life as an atheist who is a Satanist.
I think the first article in your post made some valid points. When it comes down it, the most distinct difference is that the Satanic Temple has campaigns and wants to actively affect change, whereas the Church of Satan has faded into obscurity. The post didn't really address *all* the major differences (i.e., rejection of authority/social Darwinism), but I think that's a decent starting point. The second link is an excellent source, however. Thanks for providing it.

One thing that confuses me is the Satanic Temple's stance on ritual. The "Pink Mass" is a good example of a more theatrical ritual done as a form of protest, but is there an official stance on ritual in general? I realize the TST rejects supernaturalism, but does it also reject ritual in general as a form of psychodrama? Even knowing that no actual magic is conjured during a ritual, the ritual itself can still have a profound impact on a person.

Squirrel In Portland

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Re: The Satanic Temple vs. The Church of Satan
« Reply #12 on: December 16, 2015, 08:10:06 AM »
The most significant split between The Satanic Temple and the Church of Satan is political. The Church of Satan is heavily tied up in Social Darwinism and a "might makes right" philosophy (perhaps an outgrowth of Anton LaVey's hatred of the hippie movement). The Satanic Temple rejects that philosophy and embraces a more humanistic and compassionate one.
Yeah, plus the Church of Satan is just really snooty. From what I gathered, they have a very non-inclusive mentality. I like the tenets of compassion and empathy. Altruism is pretty important to me personally, so I feel like the Satanic Temple is more appropriate for me overall. I could never get over how the Church of Satan is so obsessed with authority, that just bothered me.

I agree with this. I also think that it is in the spirit of Satan even according to the Bible. If 'god' had had his way in that mythology we would be dumb beasts. Satan in the story brought us knowledge like Promethious bright mankind fire.
Not my puppies, not my stir fry.

Achilles

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Re: The Satanic Temple vs. The Church of Satan
« Reply #13 on: December 18, 2015, 11:38:15 AM »

[/quote]I think the first article in your post made some valid points. When it comes down it, the most distinct difference is that the Satanic Temple has campaigns and wants to actively affect change, whereas the Church of Satan has faded into obscurity. The post didn't really address *all* the major differences (i.e., rejection of authority/social Darwinism), but I think that's a decent starting point. The second link is an excellent source, however. Thanks for providing it.

One thing that confuses me is the Satanic Temple's stance on ritual. The "Pink Mass" is a good example of a more theatrical ritual done as a form of protest, but is there an official stance on ritual in general? I realize the TST rejects supernaturalism, but does it also reject ritual in general as a form of psychodrama? Even knowing that no actual magic is conjured during a ritual, the ritual itself can still have a profound impact on a person.
[/quote] I don't know what TST's stance on ritual is, but i think it would great to have them to privately mock other religious ceremonies, in addition, it would bring satanists together, even if it's not on a weekly basis, for discussion and/or other activities that yield pleasure, you have a willing participant in me..anyone else?

jdw89

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Re: The Satanic Temple vs. The Church of Satan
« Reply #14 on: March 28, 2016, 10:47:20 PM »
I just wanted to state this has been a very informative post to me. I had read the Satanic Bible before and agreed with some of what it said, but someone brought up a great point about how it's the strong vs. weak mentality and that I definitely do not agree with, if anything I believe we should have more compassion upon the weak and help them if we should want to do so.