Author Topic: On the fence  (Read 1526 times)

Appolyon

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On the fence
« on: March 21, 2017, 12:28:28 PM »
hey. right now is a pretty rough time for me. im struggling with depression and anxiety right now. im 16, and have been raised in a christian household my whole life, until recently that is. im speaking with pastors on other christian forums right now, but i just dont know how i feel about it any more.  in my eyes, god's kind of a fucking asshole. right now, i kind of just want to examine both sides of the spectrum here. ive read up on some of what LaVey taught, but am still kind of in the dark about this. my main question is if satanism, atheistic satanism that is, is more of a frame of mind, than a religion. im just really done with religion at this point, so i would like to know.

Maha Kali

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Re: On the fence
« Reply #1 on: March 21, 2017, 01:32:36 PM »
            I think any religion should not only create a mental and spiritual framework by which you hold certain beliefs and values but also be something that impacts and affects your actions in day to day life, so it's not just a frame of mind in my opinion. When you live out your beliefs, it makes them real, valid, and true. I had the same type of problem when I was a little older than you because I was raised in a very similar background. What I learned is that it can take a long time, possibly years, to fully throw off the mental chains of Christianity and embrace a new and better path; at least it did for me.

           However don't take this to mean throwing away your old religion is necessarily better in your case, you should follow your heart and do whatever feels the best for you and reduces your internal discord. I just used that as an example because it was better for me. TST (as well as CoS, to the best of my knowledge) don't proselytize and neither do I. It's likely though that same can't be said of the Christian pastors who you're talking to. But what I will say is that whatever feels the best at this moment may not necessarily end up being the ideal path for you; because the path to finding your true "spiritual self" is a long journey.

          It's also important to look at your depression/anxiety from a medical and not a religious perspective; if your daily functions are being affected then it's a good idea to consult a doctor/therapist. It's important to be able to differentiate between a legitimate mental illness (not saying you have one, just a possibility from what you have written) and simply having some spiritual and religious internal debates with yourself. It's good that you are exploring different sides of things though so I think you're on the right track. :)

dkazny

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Re: On the fence
« Reply #2 on: March 21, 2017, 02:10:53 PM »
Hey,

I also suffer from anxiety and depression (and bipolar II).  Maha Kali gave sound advice.  Especially regarding treating mental health as a medical issue.

Just some clarification about TST as an organization:
- TST represents an atheistic religion with an ethos built around the Seven Tenets that stands independently of other religions.  It is not a reaction to Christianity or a trolling activist group.
- TST is not a LaVeyan organization; it rejects LaVey's social Darwinism and elitism, for example. That said, there are those within the group who enjoy LaVey's works—but you won't find the Satanic Bible used at TST meetings.

This was meant to be informative and not at all a criticism, just to be clear.

Appolyon

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Re: On the fence
« Reply #3 on: March 21, 2017, 02:12:53 PM »
why is it that out of the countless pastors ive talked to, it takes a satanist to say something that i agree with?!:) i thank you for ur answer, and agree wholeheartedly.  my only fear are those mental chains that you were talking about. i want to walk away, but im still afraid to go to hell for going against god. i guess thats what i get for being raised this way. theres also my parents to worry about. my mom would be wrecked. i love my parents, but they are very firm in what they belive, and i respect that. i just wish that christianity was more like satanism. thanks for the answer though. funny story, i actually made a fake satanist account on a christian forum, just to see their response. i politely asked for a debate, and didnt ever make derogatory commets about them. that account didnt last one thread, and its now permanently banned. :)

beatdaddio

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Re: On the fence
« Reply #4 on: March 21, 2017, 05:36:45 PM »
The fear of hell is something they programmed you with from a very young age.  Their indoctrination runs deep, and many parts of it may stay with you in some form for a large part of your adult life.

What freethinking offers is freedom to examine these beliefs, and any other claims about the meaning of life, and freedom to see when there is no evidence supporting them.  Asking the questions is the most important and valuable thing you can do; being open to uncomfortable answers is the second most.  :)

TST's satanism takes freethinking and adds a moral code based on reason and compassion.  Don't let anyone tell you that morality can only come from blind faith in a doctrine; we demonstrate that morality can also come from logic, science, and our own personal examination of the world.
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samowens84

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Re: On the fence
« Reply #5 on: March 22, 2017, 09:16:49 AM »
It can be traumatizing to lose a religion, not to mention one that had been ingrained by parents who a child typically trusts to keep them safe and tell them the truth. Feelings of betrayel might also be expected. I had natural doubts about christianity for a long time, and i thought it would be an easy transition to simply leave and be an atheist. Fear of hell was extremely palpable when i left, and i tried to repress them with all the atheistic arguments i could find, but that didnt work, it just made me a bitter atheist cliche.

Basic psychology will tell you that the more you avoid something you are afraid of, the more fear you will have. Pragmatically, Satanism has for me helped me face that fear head on by emotionally embracing a destiny that formally frightened me, even though it is simply a use of fantasy and psychodrama. Lavey isnt always popular around here, but he did comment on this in the satanic bible. He argued that trying to scrub the psyche clean, like i did witb atheism, would only fill the individual with all kinds of tensions. Ive learned to revel in my fears, guilt and.christian baggage, and made it fun. Feels good and liberating to embrace a philosophy that ive been told is "evil" and "dangerous," like a child sticking my hands in the forbidden cookie jar. This has helped me accept the emotional reality of atheism that rigerous argumentation could not offer.

That being said, i was like you, in that when i left i wanted to debate every religious person who crossed my path, but it took me years to accept that certain perspectives cannot be bridged. Youll find that for many their Christianity is just as real to them , as Satanism, or whatever path you choose, would be for you. If one infringes on my space, ill have no problems mocking them, but if im in their space, then i would respect them and keep.my mouth shut. However, in neither scenerio would i be willing to deliberatly frustrate myself by engaging in a futile debate with any of them. This isnt so much a judgement on your efforts to debate them, as much as for me that the more peace i had within myself, the less conflict i sought with others. If youre lucky enough to find a philosophy that can offer daily insights, joy and power that enhances your existence, which doesnt have to be satanism, i think youll be more accepting of other peoples differences from yourself, and vice versa. Just my experience.

ClovenMischief

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Re: On the fence
« Reply #6 on: March 24, 2017, 08:12:52 AM »
These are also serious issues to think about (assuming you are still under your parent's care).

If you fear your parents will hurt you in anyway that you can't handle, including rejection and neglect, you do not have to tell them anything. Your safety should come first. You are still 16, you have 2 more years before legally able to be on your own if you haven't already found someway out of the house around the law. Be aware that could be 2 years of more emotional torture than you can handle if your parents or their community abuses you.
If you live in one of those more tight knit religious communities, then be aware that everything and everyone you may know and love may ostracize you or bully you. These are serious issues to think about. They build themselves this way specifically so that people will not leave. And during excommunication rituals they will purposefully make you uncomfortable and say very scary things for you to change your mind or to scar you for life as you go. It's better to excommunicate yourself through mail if that is a possible option, just a google search away. (But your local church and family will be notified so do this when you're safe, they're not SUPPOSED to notify your family, but the pastor/bishop/ect is usually an asshole anyway )
Just ask yourself, "Do I really need their validation?"
You'd be surprised that sometimes you don't.

If you can't say anything remember you'll be ok. You can pull through in secret. Many of us do for over decades until we've got our own places. You're lucky you're 16 and almost out of the house. It may hurt to be secret,  but it may hurt a lot more if you're not secret.

The good news is that Atheistic religions are not like that. They're nice all around (mostly) and don't care if you're theistic so long as you are not shoving it down their throats. And if you leave atheism they're just like, "You do you. Do what makes you happy." And they'll still be friends with ya. Heck we got Theistic Satanists and Pagans in TST and we're still proud of them because we judge people based on their personal character, not their beliefs. So long as you live by TST and are not shoving religion down our throats, we'll like ya all the same. :3
« Last Edit: March 25, 2017, 08:00:37 AM by ClovenMischief »

Appolyon

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Re: On the fence
« Reply #7 on: March 25, 2017, 12:36:02 PM »
Thanks for the support guys, I really appreciate it. Also, quick question. TST is an atheistic organization, so why is it named after an entity from Christianity? Just curious.

beatdaddio

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Re: On the fence
« Reply #8 on: March 25, 2017, 07:59:08 PM »
From the FAQ: "Satan is symbolic of the Eternal Rebel in opposition to arbitrary authority, forever defending personal sovereignty even in the face of insurmountable odds. Satan is an icon for the unbowed will of the unsilenced inquirer… the heretic who questions sacred laws and rejects all tyrannical impositions. Ours is the literary Satan best exemplified by Milton and the Romantic Satanists, from Blake to Shelley, to Anatole France."

The literary culture that spawned romantic satanism grew out from majority-Christian countries.

As a counter-example, there are Sufi sects that treat Satan as a saint or the highest of angels, because they interpret his story in their culture as one of perfect unbending devotion to god.  Also the Yazidis are often mistaken for Satan worshipers because again their interpretation of these characters means something different in their culture.  Satan can be re-purposed as needed.  Many other cultures have "rebel" figures, but it's the monotheistic empires wherein the figure of opposition has the most symbolic power.
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ThorGoLucky

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Re: On the fence
« Reply #9 on: March 29, 2017, 11:54:17 AM »
A couple of things that I found helpful is keeping in mind priorities and learning how the world works.

1. What's important?

2. Learn history, science/skepticism, society (governments, insurance, economies, social justice, etc.), and practical things (cooking, repairing, camping/survival, first aid, etc.).  We cannot know everything, but one can learn enough to cross off bullshit and help be prepared.

TallCrazyDreadLady

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Re: On the fence
« Reply #10 on: March 31, 2017, 01:59:28 PM »
ThorGoLucky........YES!!!...thank you. that's what i did. to the young person who started this thread, i just wanted you to know you are not alone in this situation. we go through this at some point. the more you study, the stronger your mind gets. you have a right to ask questions and demand a sound and solid answer. you have a right to collect info from the world and then sit back and really look at all that info. you don't have to commit to anything, you...commit to you. living here in atlanta, people always ask me what's my religion and what or who do i worship....well, speaking their language, i guess i would have to say that i worship my mom and dad. they gave birth to me and raised me, i thank them for that.