Author Topic: Helping the homeless  (Read 851 times)

Calc

  • Guest
Helping the homeless
« on: February 08, 2017, 04:03:17 PM »
Hi everyone!
I was given the opportunity to work at a soup kitchen for a missions group in Toronto and I was thinking about it today. There is a lot of christian and other religious groups that do things like this, but (now correct me if I'm wrong) there aren't a whole lot of openly atheist organizations that do. Have any chapters considered doing it as a sort of community outreach? Also does anyone think that perhaps doing things like what was mentioned above, paint TST in an even more positive light than it is? Just an idea  ;D
« Last Edit: February 08, 2017, 04:05:05 PM by Calc »

ClovenMischief

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 116
    • View Profile
Re: Helping the homeless
« Reply #1 on: February 10, 2017, 06:09:38 PM »
This is part of my dream actually. Including a capsule hotel for the homeless and donation drives of clothing and needed materials and so much more.

Unfortunately I've seen how competition between an Atheist run Soup Kitchen and a Christian run Soup Kitchen, not that the Atheists wanted competition, the Christians were just so sour about them. The people running the Christian one went above and beyond to make the Atheist one disappear in obscurity even though it was more conveniently closer to the poor communities.
I think we could succeed with something like this where there's a large population of poor without a pre-existing Soup Kitchen. If there's another Soup Kitchen nearby within 100 miles, it could be trouble. The last thing we want is people shoving self-blame/shame and theism down everyone's throat NOT to visit the Satanic/Atheist Soup Kitchen.
I studied all that was most Good and found all that was most Evil.
I studied all that was most Evil and found all that was most Good.

beatdaddio

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 102
    • View Profile
Re: Helping the homeless
« Reply #2 on: February 10, 2017, 11:12:15 PM »
I totally support the idea of feeding the hungry; but I wonder about the point of trying to get people to see Satanism in a positive light.  Those of us that are drawn to it are not dissuaded by the traditional association with evil; we either like it, or play with it symbolically, asserting that rebellion against oppression is a greater good than the supposed benevolence or purity of the "god" of the oppressor.  So what does a soup kitchen do to turn the focus away from the obvious and immediately-understood idea of worshiping evil, and turn the focus toward some non-negative interpretation of what Satanism means?  And even if that intention succeeded, what would be the point?

Example: the Baphomet statue and the Snakemas creche are potent because they force theocrats to swallow a bitter pill under the law of religious freedom.  The bitterness of the pill leverages them to withdraw their Xtian statuary and signage.  If the idea of Satanism becomes less abhorrent to them, then the pill is no longer so bitter and the threat of having to allow Satanic signs loses its teeth.  At the same time, the more we soften and sweeten the idea of Satanism, the less of a rebellion it becomes for ourselves as well.  At a certain point it just becomes goth rationalism.

As I type this out, I wonder if the solution would be to promote the food offering as a rebellion against those who would oppress through capitalism.  Sort of like Food Not Bombs, where they offer food as a political statement, and where they are routinely arrested for providing food without a license.  Of course not every Satanist is anti-capitalist, but maybe that Venn diagram overlaps around say five or more people in a given community, that would be enough for them to motivate to run a soup kitchen with a message.
Now more than ever.

ClovenMischief

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 116
    • View Profile
Re: Helping the homeless
« Reply #3 on: February 11, 2017, 12:49:43 PM »
You make a good point, but I also can't see why we just can't open any type of charity org simply because it's in our hearts to do so.  TST, Satanism, and Atheism doesn't even have to be advertised in anyway logo or verbally. Just a bunch a people who happen to be of atheist religions joining together to give something to the community.

Afterall TST did Socks for Satan. But that was something small and noninvasive (permanent building-wise) in the communities it was put through. We wouldn't even have to have any Satanic lingo for the charity's title. Though I admit something called "Satan's Soup Kitchen" with the saying,"We feed the cast out souls!" would be pretty funny...
I studied all that was most Good and found all that was most Evil.
I studied all that was most Evil and found all that was most Good.

Benjamin T. Awesome

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 151
    • View Profile
    • My Medium
Re: Helping the homeless
« Reply #4 on: February 12, 2017, 09:05:06 PM »
Example: the Baphomet statue and the Snakemas creche are potent because they force theocrats to swallow a bitter pill under the law of religious freedom.  The bitterness of the pill leverages them to withdraw their Xtian statuary and signage.  If the idea of Satanism becomes less abhorrent to them, then the pill is no longer so bitter and the threat of having to allow Satanic signs loses its teeth.  At the same time, the more we soften and sweeten the idea of Satanism, the less of a rebellion it becomes for ourselves as well.  At a certain point it just becomes goth rationalism.

If Satanism becomes acceptable to Christians, then I think we can say 'mission accomplished.' There is also value in decoupling the concept of good from Christianity in the minds of all people, including people eating at a homeless kitchen. Christians don't get to have a monopoly on morality just because they go around saying they are good and some of them do genuinely good deeds. Satanists can do good deeds, too.

beatdaddio

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 102
    • View Profile
Re: Helping the homeless
« Reply #5 on: February 13, 2017, 12:16:22 AM »
I agree with the part about decoupling the ideas of "good" and "Christian".  Of course they're doing a pretty good job of decoupling themselves already.  But how would a Satanist charity help with that decoupling?  There are many non-xtian charities already; I don't see how they do anything to affect the good/nongood associations people may have with the xtian ones.

And I honestly don't see how Satanism could ever become acceptable to xtians generally.  It's literally what they are opposed to.  That's like suggesting arsonists could become acceptable to firefighters.  Further, for many (not all) of us, that very conflict is the point of professing Satanism in the first place.
Now more than ever.

Benjamin T. Awesome

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 151
    • View Profile
    • My Medium
Re: Helping the homeless
« Reply #6 on: February 13, 2017, 03:28:40 PM »
I agree with the part about decoupling the ideas of "good" and "Christian".  Of course they're doing a pretty good job of decoupling themselves already.  But how would a Satanist charity help with that decoupling?  There are many non-xtian charities already; I don't see how they do anything to affect the good/nongood associations people may have with the xtian ones.

Because those charities aren't seen as being explicitly in opposition to Christianity the way Satanism is (whether true or not). Satanism is proclaimed as being categorically evil by Christianity, and Christianity is proclaimed as inherently good by Christianity. If, however, people can see that Satanism is not objectively evil, because Satanists are committing good acts and helping people, then it calls into question this entire paradigm that Christianity has set up. People can see that Christianity is wrong about Satanism, and can then ask if Christianity is even right about Christianity. Then they are open to what you have observed, that some elements of Christianity are particularly odious, and seem to be working overtime to make Christianity look as repugnant as humanly possible (I'm looking at you, Pat Robertson).

Quote
And I honestly don't see how Satanism could ever become acceptable to xtians generally.  It's literally what they are opposed to.  That's like suggesting arsonists could become acceptable to firefighters.  Further, for many (not all) of us, that very conflict is the point of professing Satanism in the first place.

Any thoughts I have on this are little more than prognostication. I would like to think that if the minds of people could be emancipated from superstition, then Christians could accept Satanists. Did you know, much as The Satanic Temple is a form of secular Satanism, that there is also secular Christianity? Did you know there are agnostic Christians who view Jesus metaphorically, as an iconic figure? Some see his non-violence and charitableness as being worthy of emulation, and are largely unconcerned about things like laws and proscriptions allegedly handed down from a divine authority. Christians such as these would be disavowed by many mainstream Christians (the way we are disavowed by theistic Satanists), but they consider themselves Christians nonetheless.

So, in this world, where both secular Christianity and secular Satanism exist, and where they could, theoretically, reach a lot of common ground, it stands to reason that, with superstition eliminated from the equation, Christians could come to accept Satanism. The question, then, is simply whether superstition can be eliminated at a broad enough level to make this possible.

Calc

  • Guest
Re: Helping the homeless
« Reply #7 on: February 22, 2017, 04:06:10 PM »
Why does it have to be centered around religious belief in the first place? I meant that doing some stuff for the general public looks good and if we were to do things like that, people would become more interested in our ideologies. Personally, I don't hate christians. I went through a time in my life where I did and was a militant atheist. However, I don't really give a shit to be totally honest. Along with the bad stuff that non-secular religions have done, they have done a lot of good stuff too. To assume that we are strictly fighting christians and acting "evil" to fit the 1980's original stereotype is kind of ridiculous. If that is purely what our organization is about, then I've been fed a line of crap. Sure we might believe that we have the right to offend, but do we need to be constantly doing such? Instead of always being seen as the proverbial bad guys, maybe a bit of public service to those less fortunate would give us a chance to educate and re-shape this preconceived notion of how inherently bad we are.

Just an idea.
« Last Edit: February 22, 2017, 04:09:59 PM by Calc »

beatdaddio

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 102
    • View Profile
Re: Helping the homeless
« Reply #8 on: February 22, 2017, 09:04:42 PM »
Why does it have to be centered around religious belief in the first place? I meant that doing some stuff for the general public looks good and if we were to do things like that, people would become more interested in our ideologies. Personally, I don't hate christians. I went through a time in my life where I did and was a militant atheist. However, I don't really give a shit to be totally honest. Along with the bad stuff that non-secular religions have done, they have done a lot of good stuff too. To assume that we are strictly fighting christians and acting "evil" to fit the 1980's original stereotype is kind of ridiculous. If that is purely what our organization is about, then I've been fed a line of crap. Sure we might believe that we have the right to offend, but do we need to be constantly doing such? Instead of always being seen as the proverbial bad guys, maybe a bit of public service to those less fortunate would give us a chance to educate and re-shape this preconceived notion of how inherently bad we are.

Just an idea.

For some people Satanism is a method for a purpose.  For others it is a hat to wear, something about self determination, which is nice--but there are bigger fish to fry, and if you look at TST's brief history, you will see that it is specifically a method for a purpose.
Now more than ever.

julieruin

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 1
    • View Profile
Re: Helping the homeless
« Reply #9 on: March 17, 2017, 02:38:29 PM »
April 1st is the National Day of Action for Housing and a great chance to stand up for people experiencing homelessness. The main action is in Washington, D.C. and sister actions are taking place all across the country. I'm organizing a statewide event for Florida in Tallahassee at the Governor's Mansion. Get in touch if you'd like to join me in giving Governor Rick Scott a restless night.

http://nationalhomeless.org/national-day-of-action-for-housing/

Arachne

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 1
    • View Profile
Re: Helping the homeless
« Reply #10 on: March 20, 2017, 09:59:30 AM »
I would be all for this. Being in NYC every day I see people who live on the streets on a regular basis, and there's clearly a lack of basic needs available. I'd definitely be interested in doing something in an organized way.

There are the big organizations (think shelters, soup kitchens, etc.) but the shelters are notoriously dangerous especially for women, and some organizations, like the Salvation Army, have been known to discriminate against the lgbt community. Basically, even though food and shelter are technically available, I see people in mid-winter without shoes or socks all the time.

Maybe a "Satan Cares" care package program? Just some snacks, women's sanitary products, baby wipes, maybe some socks and gloves, used books?

Benjamin T. Awesome

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 151
    • View Profile
    • My Medium
Re: Helping the homeless
« Reply #11 on: March 20, 2017, 02:27:46 PM »
Maybe a "Satan Cares" care package program? Just some snacks, women's sanitary products, baby wipes, maybe some socks and gloves, used books?
The Los Angeles chapter has already been doing this:

https://www.instagram.com/p/BRANrS0lgfo/?taken-by=thesatanictemplelosangeles
https://www.instagram.com/p/BRJ-XY9lwyg/?taken-by=thesatanictemplelosangeles

If you are in New York, get involved with the local chapter there, work with someone who knows the lay of the land with regard to distributing goods to homeless people, and go for it. It's not that hard; you just have to do it.

beatdaddio

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 102
    • View Profile
Re: Helping the homeless
« Reply #12 on: March 20, 2017, 02:33:19 PM »
IIRC the company Blackcraft Cult had a bunch of inexpensive blankets printed with the CoS Baphomet/pentagram logo, and handed those out to the homeless last winter.  Lots of possibilities there.
Now more than ever.