Author Topic: For Theistic Satanists  (Read 1285 times)

Lilith Sitara

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For Theistic Satanists
« on: September 19, 2016, 04:29:38 PM »
So, I know that TST is an atheist religion but they allow Theistic Satanists and that's what this topic is about, don't like it don't read. So, what religion did you guys come from if you were one first? What caused you to leave? I was Christian first, fundamental sect that I just couldn't get behind because I wouldn't tell gays they were going to hell, or Christians that they weren't using the right terminology. Ridiculous stuff. Then I turned back to my very old set of Wiccanism, then I found the Temple and never before had I felt so free, and that I resonated so well. For an atheistic religion, you are a very enlightened bunch. Does anyone every struggle with the spiritual side of this, you know the fact that Satanic Panic is a bunch of crap, trying to get your prayer ducks in a row? If this makes sense. Do you ever hear stuff about your old religion and have a twinge of unease? I'm sure of my path I'm just surrounded by hardcore christians and I can smell those kind of arguments a mile away.

lifethorne

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Re: For Theistic Satanists
« Reply #1 on: September 20, 2016, 09:05:43 AM »
I was Christian for a while in high school since i went to church per invitation of a boy i liked. however, i became dissatisfied with a lot of it and looked into Islam for a while, and finally decided i'd just believe in some sort of god. thankfully i discovered various atheist advocates on youtube and through them found TST. it is very strange to think back on the mental gymnastics i performed to justify my belief in magic. i think many can understand the desire to believe in an afterlife and some sort of cosmic entity doling out justice, but there is no evidence of any such thing, so those beliefs had no firm ground in my mind. Very happy to have found The Satanic Temple and you wonderful people.
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Lilith Sitara

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Re: For Theistic Satanists
« Reply #2 on: September 20, 2016, 11:02:36 AM »
Mental gymnastics is definitely a good way to put it. It's practically mental abuse what a lot of these religions put their congregation through. When I reached out to a church I left to tell them why, to tell them how I was being spiritually bullied and subject to sexism, and they ignored me but made sure to put in their next sermon how if you don't do what Jesus says he's going to come back and put you to death... I was distraught for a long time. I've gotten along so much better with you guys then I ever did in a christian establishment.

Alchemist16AD

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Re: For Theistic Satanists
« Reply #3 on: September 21, 2016, 12:50:32 AM »
For me it breaks down to someone telling you what they say the so called God etc says. Unless of course your lucky (or unlucky) enough to hear this said god. Like the bible it tells you what people tell you god said. Seems sad he's to busy to tell us what he really wants.  I see worshiping a devil, demon, or what ever same. I wouldn't be following a god I would be following what some group says god said. Anton LaVey admitted that he borrowed from many sources. Yet none of them being from a god or devil etc.
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Lilith Sitara

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Re: For Theistic Satanists
« Reply #4 on: September 21, 2016, 10:26:30 AM »
That makes a lot of sense. It explains in the Bible why the Abrahamic god stopped talking to the people directly, because the greatness of his voice scared them and they begged him not to, so he started speaking through chosen prophets. But see, I wouldn't be that little piss-ant that was too scared to hear what I was being told to do. He had them kill entire nations all on the prophets command. I could never do that. When I communicate with a being I intend to do it directly.

Sympathiser in Montreal

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Re: For Theistic Satanists
« Reply #5 on: September 21, 2016, 11:41:09 AM »
I agree with you, Lilith Sitara. If we were benevolent gods and we wanted to communicate with humankind, we could do a better job than the asshole depicted in the Bible.

The concept Christians mistakenly reify as a benevolent supernatural agent is incompatible with the excuse its voice is too scary for humans to hear. By definition, an all-powerful being, if it wanted to speak to us without scaring us, it could. Either it cruelly plays hide-and-seek with us, which would make it not benevolent; or, it does not exist for real, it’s only a failed incoherent man-made concept. Everything points to the latter.

Lilith Sitara, you seem to hold on to some residual belief in a deity (or maybe magic?) despite not believing anymore in the existence of the god of the Bible. If it’s the case and you don't mind sharing, what convinces you a god (or anything supernatural) exists?
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Lilith Sitara

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Re: For Theistic Satanists
« Reply #6 on: September 21, 2016, 11:58:18 AM »
I still believe the god of the Bible exists, I just think he is an asshole. See title thread. I have had my share of experiences I cannot easily or accurately explain with science, ghost run ins, demonic run ins, all with multiple witnesses. In essence I believe magick is merely the term for the force of life, in both this plain of existence and others. Not trying to convert anyone though, this is just my personal belief.

Sympathiser in Montreal

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Re: For Theistic Satanists
« Reply #7 on: September 21, 2016, 12:29:01 PM »
Me too, I respect your autonomy and I am pleased you are not trying to convert anyone. It’s up to each of us, individually, to decide what warrants our belief. I am just curious which method you used to conclude other planes of existence actually exist.

Many people are under the impression that the first explanation that came to their mind when experiencing something strange or troublesome must be the one and only true explanation; their abductive reasoning cannot be mistaken because it derives from an intimate, personal experience they had. For instance, Muslims interpreting weirdness as signs given by Allah, Buddhists interpreting unlikely outcomes as evidence for Karma, Hindus seeing Shiva’s work in their everyday lives, etc.

Is this type of intuition or reasoning that leads you to conclude supernatural beings, like the god of Bible, do not exist just as a concept?
I don’t want you to think like me. I just want you to think.

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Lilith Sitara

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Re: For Theistic Satanists
« Reply #8 on: September 21, 2016, 01:52:25 PM »
Yes, you are understanding me well. As I try to explain to people I believe in many plains, many paths. There is a plain where Shiva exists, a plain where Nirvana exists, Valhalla, Eden, etc etc. The only thing I can never decide and I don't think we'll ever know is which came first, the chicken or the egg. Did these plains exist first and then we discerned them, or were they born in the minds of man and came to be through shear force of belief, molding creation itself. This is why I tell people I don't believe there is one true path for all of man kind, their soul must choose or forge its own. That's why when I was Christian I couldn't demonize other religions as expected. But yes, I am superstitious and I interpret odd happenings as supernatural if I can't scientifically explain it, I'm just trying to learn to not narrow the label down to one entity like "this was God's will".

Sympathiser in Montreal

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Re: For Theistic Satanists
« Reply #9 on: September 21, 2016, 07:29:10 PM »
Interesting. Because you are unable to decide which “planes of existence” actually exist and which ones exist only as imaginary constructs, you prefer to believe all of them, more or less, exist for real.

If I am wrong, please, correct me.

It doesn’t seem wise to me to grant the same credence to highly speculative conjectures and proven facts. I like nuances. Personally, a third option imposes itself on me, a middle road, between believing everything indiscriminately and cynically disbelieving everything: admitting to myself, “I don’t know, therefore I suspend my judgment until I can reliably investigate what I just experienced.”

To navigate life, I want my map of reality to be as complete as possible and as less mistaken as possible.


  • It would be easy for me to believe everything indiscriminately. This way I would be bound to be right sometimes, just by pure luck. With this credulous method, I would maximize the quantity of true beliefs, but, it would also considerably have the unfortunate consequence of me holding to a maximum of contradictory, false beliefs.
  • If I would adopt a cynical attitude and believe nothing, I would minimize false beliefs but I would also condemn myself to miss true beliefs.


I don’t want an empty map nor a map cluttered with mirages, imaginary sea monsters and bridges to continents that don’t exit. Both types of maps would be useless to me. Thus, I am careful to only add confirmed features of the terrain on my map and label the speculative regions of the territory with “I don’t really know what lies there, but, one day, I hope I will”.

Do you find my method sensible?
I don’t want you to think like me. I just want you to think.

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Lilith Sitara

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Re: For Theistic Satanists
« Reply #10 on: September 21, 2016, 09:44:17 PM »
Your method is utterly sensible and it really makes sense to do it that way. As you stated, it's not the method that I use but I am still developing spiritually so it doesn't bother me the method that I use. I am impressed that you can dissect mine and your methodology in such a well thought out and concise manner.

Sympathiser in Montreal

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Re: For Theistic Satanists
« Reply #11 on: September 22, 2016, 06:02:16 AM »
Thank you. I am sure there are some mistakes in my reasoning I am unaware of. I want to discover them so I can rectify them and work on the next ones. Never absolutely right, only slightly less wrong t each iteration.

I wish you happy discoveries.
I don’t want you to think like me. I just want you to think.

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lillithdasa

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Re: For Theistic Satanists
« Reply #12 on: February 11, 2017, 07:43:41 AM »
Privately I am a little closer to theistic Satanism. I don't see Satan as a deity that has to be appeased but more of a presence. I know I can just be myself around Satan and don't have to be fake, I have never curt myself neither have I hurt animals or people. If someone crosses me I might use the dark arts to get revenge or protection.

samowens84

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Re: For Theistic Satanists
« Reply #13 on: February 12, 2017, 09:32:15 AM »
Everybody has a different idea of what "real" Satanism is. Church of Satan thinks that theistic satanism is a contradiction, but Michael Aquino would argue that unless you embrace Satan as an entity, then you are a poser. The trap is that people have an experience that is authentic for them, and come to believe that they have *the authentic belief, or *the truth. Personally, I think I have no right to argue or impose my subjective experience onto someone else. Everyone has got to do what feels authentic to them, and fuck people who would have it any other way.

longtail

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Re: For Theistic Satanists
« Reply #14 on: February 18, 2017, 02:54:18 PM »
    Interesting topic, Lilith Sitara! I was raised without any religion, which I think is a good way to raise kids. Until they are 18, or start making their own path choices, kids should be taught rational thought, and how to find information they desire on any given subject. I was interested in religion from pretty early on, perhaps from about 16. Hindu thought, various native American systems, Wicca... got suckered in by some born agains ( I'm not proud of this phase) and went to their church for most of a year. Had to leave because of the observed discrepancies between what was being taught there, and the actions and attitudes of the membership, as well as the huge divide between what I read in their book and how they actually behaved. Went back to my disorganized hodgepodge mess of superstitions, joined a coven many years later, hung out with Asatru people. ( Not the Nazi kind.)  Seems like I went through a long period of hibernation until I started learning about left hand path ideas, as everything previous had been versions of right hand path stuff. I credit TST with being my gateway to this new awakening, and am very grateful for what has happened since participating in an "unbaptism" ritual put on by TST folks... this proved a remarkable catalyst towards sorting out my mental landscape. I would currently describe myself as agnostic, rather than theist or atheist. Whether the ideas of the left hand path are taken as indicating an objective reality or a subjective one, or a mixture, I think the effects are worth pursuing.
    The paradigm of "God" being all-that-is, a sort of vast, undifferentiated mechanistic mass that right hand paths have as a goal to dissolve themselves into, losing the self, and Satanism being the way towards developing a permanent, isolate intelligence that is separate from God appeals to me greatly. I do think it is important to keep one's skepticism close by, as it is all too easy to get stuck in bad loops that prevent us from reaching our full potential as humans; like Sympathiser in Montreal, if we can be more right with each iteration, making changes to our mental maps as new evidence comes in, I think we move asymptotically towards understanding the world we find ourselves in.
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