Author Topic: What implications does this FSM ruling have in regards to The Satanic Temple?  (Read 1350 times)

41_6e_61

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"Worshipping the Flying Spaghetti Monster is not a real religion, US court rules
Believing in Pastafarianism is not a constitutional right.

This is not a question of theology: it is a matter of basic reading comprehension. The FSM Gospel is plainly a work of satire, meant to entertain while making a pointed political statement. To read it as religious doctrine would be little different from grounding a "religious exercise" on any other work of fiction. A prisoner could just as easily read the works of Vonnegut or Heinlein and claim it as his holy book, and demand accommodation of Bokononism or the Church of All Worlds. 6 See, Kurt Vonnegut, Cat's Cradle (Dell Publishing 1988) (1963); Robert A. Heinlein, Stranger in a Strange Land (Putnam Publ'g Grp. 1961). Of course, there are those who contend—and Cavanaugh is probably among them—that the Bible or the Koran are just as fictional as those books. It is not always an easy line to draw. But there must be a line beyond which a practice is not "religious" simply because a plaintiff labels it as such. The Court concludes that FSMism is on the far side of that line."
http://arstechnica.co.uk/tech-policy/2016/04/pastafarianism-is-not-a-religion/


I'm curious what everyone thinks of this?


ClovenMischief

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"Well... they're not wrong."

They are a parody, purely there to poke fun and make Christians of the Bible look silly and know they are. A religion in a clown suit.
TST, something that is both 100% satire and 100% unique religion all its own. We ended up in such a lucky position.
Can you imagine Pastafarians doing the things we've done publicly? Can you imagine walking in their shadow? Now imagine if Pastafarians had tried to put a Spaghetti Monster next to the Ten Commandments. We, if in their footsteps with a Baphomet Statue, would never be taken seriously. They would throw us in with that lot.

I know they're not bad guys personally, but I'm glad they are not considered a true religion because they could seriously hurt our agenda if they tried stunts anywhere near what we're doing.

Satan means something to Christians, and we are using it to its best affect, we are taken seriously as a religion even to those who know nothing about us and think we worship a Devil. They at least believe that we believe in something. A flying spaghetti Monster... just makes people point fingers laugh. Or facepalm. If we are to make any difference in this world I don't want to be thought as an atheist in cahoots with that 'silly lot' as people would come to call us.
I studied all that was most Good and found all that was most Evil.
I studied all that was most Evil and found all that was most Good.

Alchemist16AD

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Legal status

National branches of the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster have been striving in many countries to have FSMism become an officially (legally) recognized religion, with varying degrees of success. Pastafarianism/FSMism is recognized as a religion in The Netherlands,[4] and New Zealand, where Pastafarian representatives have been authorized to celebrate weddings.[5][6]

A federal court in the US state of Nebraska ruled that Flying Spaghetti Monster is a satirical parody religion, rather than an actual religion, and as a result, Pastafarians are not entitled to religious accommodation under the Religious Land Use and Institutionalized Persons Act:

"This is not a question of theology," the ruling reads in part. "The FSM Gospel is plainly a work of satire, meant to entertain while making a pointed political statement. To read it as religious doctrine would be little different from grounding a 'religious exercise' on any other work of fiction."[81]

Pastafarians have used their claimed faith as a test case to argue for freedom of religion, and to oppose government discrimination against people who do not follow a recognized religion.

source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flying_Spaghetti_Monster
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Benjamin T. Awesome

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I'm curious what everyone thinks of this?

It's a bad day for the separation of church and state when the state starts ruling some religions to be valid and others invalid.

Jingo

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Precisely.

I think it's abhorrent.

Satt

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I think TST is a little more protected because of the serious-minded seven tenets.

Also, TST is more litigious, so I wouldn't want to battle TST.

longtail

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  "This is not a question of theology," the ruling reads in part. "The FSM Gospel is plainly a work of satire, meant to entertain while making a pointed political statement. To read it as religious doctrine would be little different from grounding a 'religious exercise' on any other work of fiction."[81]

Wait a minute.... a religion based on a work of fiction is invalid?  Anyone else have their irony meter going off the scale?
« Last Edit: November 13, 2016, 01:28:59 PM by longtail »
Joyfully, Non Serviam

Erzsébet Ruhig

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  "This is not a question of theology," the ruling reads in part. "The FSM Gospel is plainly a work of satire, meant to entertain while making a pointed political statement. To read it as religious doctrine would be little different from grounding a 'religious exercise' on any other work of fiction."[81]

Wait a minute.... a religion based on a work of fiction is invalid?  Anyone else have their irony meter going off the scale?

Hahaha... yes  ;D

Considering the case of Pastafarianism... I'm legitimately curious why the TST would be considered satirical. I don't think of it as such since it's not dedicated to using humor to dismantle or prove a point against organized religion. In my view, it just encourages secular values through the seven tenets, and its intelligent, frank, sometimes sharp, advocacy work. Really interested to hear others' thoughts about this (point me in the direction of a different thread if here's not appropriate).
Into the source of wisdom
Beyond the Bible lies
Into the endless depth
Of Satan's eyes

beatdaddio

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I'm legitimately curious why the TST would be considered satirical. I don't think of it as such since it's not dedicated to using humor to dismantle or prove a point against organized religion.
The idea that TST is just trolling is a common enough view to have a mention in the FAQ.  And while there are all kinds of trolling, an example like the Baphomet statue could easily be viewed as satirical--after all, it was genuinely funny!  While at the same time it is serious of course, but the seriousness is lodged in the underlying message, not in the overt act.

I agree with the earlier poster who said that TST is not in the same "on the far side of that line" position as FSM because there is fairly substantial and international religious history attached to the term "Satanism".
Now more than ever.

Erzsébet Ruhig

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I'm legitimately curious why the TST would be considered satirical. I don't think of it as such since it's not dedicated to using humor to dismantle or prove a point against organized religion.
The idea that TST is just trolling is a common enough view to have a mention in the FAQ.  And while there are all kinds of trolling, an example like the Baphomet statue could easily be viewed as satirical--after all, it was genuinely funny!  While at the same time it is serious of course, but the seriousness is lodged in the underlying message, not in the overt act.

I agree with the earlier poster who said that TST is not in the same "on the far side of that line" position as FSM because there is fairly substantial and international religious history attached to the term "Satanism".

Great point about the trolling. The coverage of the first After School Satan club in Portland this week echoed of that. :D Maybe the actions of TST aren't intentionally satirical, but the outcome sometimes ends up inflected with it. Doesn't really matter, just something I was trying to hash out in my mind. Thanks for the perspective.  :)
Into the source of wisdom
Beyond the Bible lies
Into the endless depth
Of Satan's eyes

longtail

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Yeah, I can see both sides of the "satirical, or not" discussion... I imagine it would come down to the bias of the court. Unfortunately, that would not likely be in our favor, at least at the local court level in states that are not on the east or west coast.  I'm looking at some previous supreme court decisions, however,  ( http://millercenter.org/debates/religion/supreme-court ) and thinking if the FSM decision is appealed upwards, it could conceivably be reversed. There is a tradition in the supreme court of honoring previous decisions made by the supreme court, which may also apply to peoples current fears that marriage equality will be reversed. Not being a lawyer, I'm not sure which precedents might apply, but it does seem like blatant violation of the 1st amendment for a court to rule on whether a religion is legitimate or not. ( I tend to take a very Jeffersonian view on separation of church and state, obviously our current government would prefer a much narrower interpretation. )
   In my home state of Oregon, it is currently legal for FSM members to have their driver license photo taken with the properly religious head collander favoured by pastafarians.
Joyfully, Non Serviam

katansi

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I would think there would be a good argument on what defines religion is unconstitutional to specify and thus specify against.

longtail

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I'm rather enjoying reading "The Loose Canon" http://tinyurl.com/jo7jge4 ( download link), a document produced by pastafarians... good stuff!
Joyfully, Non Serviam