Author Topic: Did Jesus really exist?  (Read 2130 times)

The Yattering

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Did Jesus really exist?
« on: April 14, 2016, 05:26:48 PM »
This is a good question.

Did Jesus really exist?  Was he just a creation of mankind?  Was he just a "wise-man?"  A mad-man?

The only thing I could find of some proof other than that timely changed Bible is an account from Tacitus.  But, the Romans sincerely doubted any kind of magic going on.

Maybe Jesus was superhuman or a great trickster.

Maybe he didn't exist at all?
Everything is bent, vyeiernght.  - The Yattering

Alchemist16AD

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Re: Did Jesus really exist?
« Reply #1 on: April 15, 2016, 07:03:09 PM »
From everything I read I doubt he was a real person. And if so then I doubt he was near the man the bible makes him out to be. Yet even the Quran speaks of Jesus. And many Jews feel he existed yet wasn't the messiah .. That's my two cents.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historicity_of_Jesus

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christ_myth_theory




ALL CLAIMS OF JESUS DERIVE FROM HEARSAY ACCOUNTS

No one has the slightest physical evidence to support a historical Jesus; no artifacts, dwelling, works of carpentry, or self-written manuscripts. All claims about Jesus derive from writings of other people. There occurs no contemporary Roman record that shows Pontius Pilate executing a man named Jesus. Devastating to historians, there occurs not a single contemporary writing that mentions Jesus. All documents about Jesus came well after the life of the alleged Jesus from either: unknown authors, people who had never met an earthly Jesus, or from fraudulent, mythical or allegorical writings. Although one can argue that many of these writings come from fraud or interpolations, I will use the information and dates to show that even if these sources did not come from interpolations, they could still not serve as reliable evidence for a historical Jesus, simply because all sources about Jesus derive from hearsay accounts.* http://www.nobeliefs.com/exist.htm
Forged from wisdom, crafted from knowledge, a product of intelligence, raised by ignorance and stupidly. -Myself .

DissectionFan

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Re: Did Jesus really exist?
« Reply #2 on: April 15, 2016, 09:37:51 PM »
check out the book called "The God who Wasn't there"

Alchemist16AD

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Re: Did Jesus really exist?
« Reply #3 on: April 15, 2016, 10:32:42 PM »
I have watched the documentary on that. As well as read the book. As I have said what all I have read and learned. I doubt he was a real person.
Forged from wisdom, crafted from knowledge, a product of intelligence, raised by ignorance and stupidly. -Myself .

The Yattering

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Re: Did Jesus really exist?
« Reply #4 on: April 16, 2016, 09:27:02 PM »
Tacitus does make mention of Pilate and Jesus.  He is also known as being very intense and dedicated to fact.  However, the time frame would not match up and he would have received this information from other parties.  It is interesting though that Tacitus speaks of Pilate and seemingly researched Pilate and an execution for statement.

Someone also found that Tacitus may not have been speaking of christians, but slaves, as a whole.

Of course, human beings change and rewrite history all of the time to "prove" a "fact."  Remember your school books and the complete knowledge they left out?  George Washington comes to mind.

So Tacitus statement could have been developed by a churchie.

The world may never know.
Everything is bent, vyeiernght.  - The Yattering

LucasPhoenix

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Re: Did Jesus really exist?
« Reply #5 on: May 05, 2016, 08:00:29 PM »
I think about this question a lot.  I wish It mattered that he did or didn't exist  but in the USA it doesn't.  Blind Faith rules and the damage it does is real.  Christians vote out of ignorance and worse.  I have tried to have conversations with all kinds of xtians, my girlfriend included (though I tread lightly) and they just come up with words like faith and belief.  Its scary.  As far as any historical account there may have been a historical guy but he came out a woman's womb.  He was human, he died. I think Mary had an affair, cheated on Joseph, lied about Angels / God, and to keep the lie up she raised Jesus and brainwashed him so much he believed it. 
Forget Jesus. The stars died so that you could be here today.

The Yattering

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Re: Did Jesus really exist?
« Reply #6 on: May 07, 2016, 11:58:02 AM »
I think about this question a lot.  I wish It mattered that he did or didn't exist  but in the USA it doesn't.  Blind Faith rules and the damage it does is real.  Christians vote out of ignorance and worse.  I have tried to have conversations with all kinds of xtians, my girlfriend included (though I tread lightly) and they just come up with words like faith and belief.  Its scary.  As far as any historical account there may have been a historical guy but he came out a woman's womb.  He was human, he died. I think Mary had an affair, cheated on Joseph, lied about Angels / God, and to keep the lie up she raised Jesus and brainwashed him so much he believed it.

The cheating Mary is a very good hypothesis.  I would not be surprised if that was the case.  And you are right, blind faith is scary and dangerous.  Blind faith is just a slave builder to me.  The natural born or willful slave follows faith and belief.  God-like or Enlightened Persons follow fact and evidence.  The most wise person to me is the person who can say, "I can not answer, because I do not know, but I can find out."
Everything is bent, vyeiernght.  - The Yattering

Daxton Asmodeus Kane

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Re: Did Jesus really exist?
« Reply #7 on: May 11, 2016, 06:46:51 PM »
I'd say he was probably just a religious cult leader claiming to be the messiah just as many before and after him. Just my opinion though.
Kickit Wickit

LucasPhoenix

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Re: Did Jesus really exist?
« Reply #8 on: May 11, 2016, 09:26:46 PM »
I'd say he was probably just a religious cult leader claiming to be the messiah just as many before and after him. Just my opinion though.

I think that fits the official story being tried for heresy. However if there even was a historical jesus I would think the motive for his crucifixion would have been more influenced by Roman politics of the time to keep power and control.  Regardless of the historical events xtians have molded the story and even fabricated it to fit what crazy ideas they believe.   
« Last Edit: May 11, 2016, 09:30:32 PM by LucasPhoenix »
Forget Jesus. The stars died so that you could be here today.

Daxton Asmodeus Kane

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Re: Did Jesus really exist?
« Reply #9 on: May 12, 2016, 11:13:00 AM »
I'd say he was probably just a religious cult leader claiming to be the messiah just as many before and after him. Just my opinion though.

I think that fits the official story being tried for heresy. However if there even was a historical jesus I would think the motive for his crucifixion would have been more influenced by Roman politics of the time to keep power and control.  Regardless of the historical events xtians have molded the story and even fabricated it to fit what crazy ideas they believe.

Oh it was for sure political. I wish xtians would see(well... I wish they could see a lot of things, but that is a whole other topic...) just how much their precious holy book is so heavily influenced by changing politics.
Kickit Wickit

A Thousand Lucifers

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Re: Did Jesus really exist?
« Reply #10 on: July 13, 2016, 03:09:26 PM »
I have been interested in this debate ever since I read The Christ Conspiracy by Acharya S. a number of years ago. Acharya made the case that Jesus was a fiction based on the astrological/astronomical phases of the sun. Her ideas were the basis for the section on religion in the Zeitgeist movie:

Other Jesus mythicists include Richard Carrier, Robert M. Price, Earl Doherty, and Kenneth Humphreys, whose http://www.jesusneverexisted.com/ is worth checking out.

I can't quite decide if Jesus was a purely mythical creation or just another leader of a first century apocalyptic doomsday cult in the Middle East.
"But here steps in Satan, the eternal rebel, the first free-thinker and emancipator of worlds. He makes man ashamed of his bestial ignorance and obedience; he emancipates him, stamps upon his brow the seal of liberty and humanity, in urging him to disobey and eat of the fruit of knowledge." -Bakunin

ron-man-pan

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Re: Did Jesus really exist?
« Reply #11 on: August 20, 2016, 01:21:54 PM »
if jesus did exist he was a really good used car salesman considering how many sheepeople are influenced by what he supposedly said

A Thousand Lucifers

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Re: Did Jesus really exist?
« Reply #12 on: August 20, 2016, 03:55:26 PM »
A good snake oil salesman, too. It is hard to get a Consumer Reports review of soul saving products...especially since all of the customers have to be dead to collect the merchandise!

"So sorry, Jesus....only two stars for you this year. Vishnu and Horus outpaced you in delivering the goods. Better luck next time!" 
"But here steps in Satan, the eternal rebel, the first free-thinker and emancipator of worlds. He makes man ashamed of his bestial ignorance and obedience; he emancipates him, stamps upon his brow the seal of liberty and humanity, in urging him to disobey and eat of the fruit of knowledge." -Bakunin

Aleister-Crowley

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Re: Did Jesus really exist?
« Reply #13 on: August 24, 2016, 01:11:42 AM »
What I have always found strange is how if Jesus was real, why didn't he write a book. Everything written about him was done so after his death. And you know how stories get changed. I put him with the Easter bunny, Santa etc.  And even if evidence is found that he was a real person, don't mean he was anything but just a person.
I rather sip from the well of wisdom, then drown in the sea of stupidy.

Lilith Sitara

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Re: Did Jesus really exist?
« Reply #14 on: September 18, 2016, 08:09:23 PM »
Oh how this topic could go round and round. Idk if someone else mentioned this, admittedly I skimmed, but look into the Shroud of Turan and also the face cloth that was put on him immediately when he was being taken from the crucifix. Then we get into the fact that his name was never Jesus, is was Yeshua, but this wasn't actually and uncommon name, it translates roughly into Joshua. There are some Roman accounts that say Yeshua, son of Maryam, was actually the bastard son of a Roman. There are at least two or three accounts if I remember correctly. Also the fact that it was proven that the early Catholic Church burned many many gospel accounts that portrayed Yeshua as a normal devout man. The gospels that were kept were written a few hundred years after his death minimum. Though oral tradition was a big thing among the jews it would have been possible for them to preserve a story that long with little change. As someone asked, why Yeshua didn't write down his accounts himself, take into account the time. Writing materials were actual hard to come by and mainly the priest class would have had the greatest access, and the pharisees of the time hated him. That, and he was in constant travel because he was not always well received. I don't say he did or did not exist, just that there is a lot of evidence pointing to yes and and lot pointing to no.